interesting ofc those can be built into the ship itself in terms of mass and sig radius but that is only half of the issue.
-cap issues with using mwd on battleships .. along with lasers and blasters/ active tank
-CCP doesn't seem to get how high the mass on battleships are and how that affects the role of attack.
-mega really ought to be shield fit and leave the navy version as the armour ship plates and blasters don't go together.
-Tempest is too bland a ship with no real emphasis and poor slot layout.

so far i dont like what i see....

looks like im gona have to say bye bye to my Hyperion... i relly like that ship to...

just looking at the changes comeing in im probly not gona be flying Gallan for a long time

i dont fear changed before someone screams that i just dont like the direction the change is heading in and geting told it will be better when from what i can see atm its gona be "renderd" less than other races ships in overall performance

only bright side of this is the cost of the ships will drop a lot due to the shear amount of suck added to em so i guess you can get a cheep giggle on susideing em

fleet domis are gonna be what : a mjd, sensor booster , 6 x 1400, and sentries? God a non moving fleet, which s#its drones. Yes I can see the Domi is the new fleet ship alright.

hyperion is better btw.
mega is missing it's high slot , drones bandwidth and uses more cap so worse, with it's 8 lows i expect even more brick mentality.

I feel like they took from the mega and gave to the hyperion - why did they need to take from mega I do not know.

I'm actually not hung up on the hybrid bonus, unlike some people. I don't like the new bonus to be so sentry-specific in the state sentries are now. The bonus to non-sentries is extremely minimal - which has already been covered to death in this topic.

I am still very worried about the sheer dps potential coming from that Megathron without any significant weakness in durabiluty with 8 lowslots and only 500 less armor hitpoints than the Amarr Apocalypse battleship.

The Megathron in the current condition can pack a serious punch...
Megathron punch so hard people rarely get to deploy their set of heavy drones in a fight before their target is down.

Currently I find the Megathron balanced by the choice of having 3 plates + 1 damage mod or 2 plates + 2 damage mods.

Losing some drone power and a hi-slot which might have held a heavy neutralizer is a small price to pay for getting MORE gun dps and a lowslot for an extra plate or damage mod - or nanofiber/tracking enhancer/eccm whatever... This is a huge buff to one of the ships that didn't really need it - And the gameplay doesn't get changed at all.

I liked the initial proposal much better that suggested a role change - I like a Megathron with 7/5/7 layout a lot. Then I don't mind the ship having a RoF bonus and only 75-100 drone bay...

I'm not able to go on the test server, but these numbers seem a bit off. The current mega with 3 mag stabs puts out 1096 gun dps with void on EFT with max skills. Adding the five Ogre IIs gives you about 317 more dps. Overheating gives you 1260 gun dps, so all told, you get 1577 dps overheated on the old mega.

Now the new RoF bonus compared to the damage bonus gives you about 6% more gun dps. adding that to the overheated numbers gets you about 1335.6 overheated gun dps on the new mega, but you're losing 127 dps because of the 75mb bandwidth, so your dps comes out to 1525.6 overheated on the new mega with 3 mag stabs. It's actually less than it was on the old mega with the loss of the drones.

My point is that these changes are, imo, an overall nerf to the blaster Megathron. The proposed iteration has less dps than the original, less tank, no utility high slot, and has taken a hit on cap because of the RoF bonus. All for a bit more speed.

None of these "balancing" measures really address what the real problems with the mega and blaster boats in general are, i.e. slow when properly tanked, not enough dps to make up the difference when you get to target, poor damage projection when compared to other BS. Maybe the speed buff does something to address this? But something tells me 7m/s more speed isn't going to bridge the gap between the mega and the other BS out there.

All that said, I am actually curious how fast it goes on the test server with the MWD on.

Frankly, I'd take the current Mega over the proposed one everyday and twice on Sundays. I'm pretty sure no one thinks the old Mega needed to be nerfed, so lets come up with something that actually gives us a net improvement on the ship.

You're right, my math was wrong. Or rather not wrong but I was assuming that a 3 mfs Mega had the same tank as a 3mfs mega under the proposed changes, which was clearly not right.

So I've changed my mind, I endorse this product and or service CCP.

P.S. You kinda sound like a prick when you argue, you should try and work on that.

No chance of the Hyperion being OP atm with its lame cap recharge rate its as low as it could be the default cap recharge.
Even the mega has better cap even though the Hyperion is the active tanker....
Also armour repping is still pretty weak....
Maybe if you rectify these 2 things then it may just be bordering OP at least.

what so it can't even fit Neutrons? .... mmm... very OP eh :P
it needs much more pg than the mega..
armour reps and armour rep rigs a nos/neut uses more pg than guns do.. and it only gets 250 more than mega .. its a joke
The maelstrom doesn't have too pick which tier guns too fit. .. why should the Hyperion?
O it also needs at least 1 Heavy cap booster thats another guns worth of pg

so much so as that trying to kite a mega in a nano pest is impossible he just does more dps even at the ranges the pest is supposed to shine all the pest has going for it in that situation is the ability to run away after realizing that it has no chance in hell to win

Please reconsider the changes to the Megathron Drone Bay. 75 bandwidth is wimpy and will make my favorite battleship feel like the old crappy Myrmidon.

I've loved the Megathron for many years now, and it has always been about having lots of guns, lots of lows, AND lots of drones.

I don't understand why the Hyperion didn't lose drones for more gun power since it was already a more natural fit.

It is sad you have decided to destroy the identity of iconic ships like the Megathron and Typhoon.

If anything I would hit the Mega's drone bandwidth again. In practice the 2-2-1 drone combo will be rarely used. Better to reduce on paper DPS (if people have genuine concerns it is overpowered) opting for 50 (75) bay (bandwidth) a flight of mediums and flight of lights is more practical.

2 more drones won't make much of a difference, it'll just encourage pilots to use heavy drones instead of mediums, and they are not only destroyable dps but they're easy to kill with most bs weapons.

It's tank on Tq is noted as being lack luster compared to BSes more common in pvp other the rohk and abaddon. Now it puts out the dps that gallente ships should be doing, especially since if heavies are deployed outside 10km the ship you're attacking will have more than enough time to deploy smaller drones which can kill heavies with ease.

If the mega nwo is unusable due to cap.. what you tell me about the new apoc? Or even the old abaddon (That used liek 3 tiems the cap of the megatron) ?

I'll do so, and prove that two more drones won't make it Op, or the current Mega with +3 damage mods would be op.

so the gain of its new low is to make for the loss of the ships buff so what was the poing of giveing it RoF if the new low has to be used as a Mag Stab ? sure it could allow for more mixing it up but at the end of the day what are people relly after more damg output so whats that new low 99% of the time gona be a 3rd Mag Stab. ...so we got rid of the damg buff to stick a RoF and another mag stab on? makes sens this dose not. oh and we upped your ammo usege so makeing you have to hall more Null or Voied to stay for the same time.



as i said i am happy with the current Hyperion i am however sad that we no longer have an 8 Gun ship... i mean the talos has them so why are the bigger gunners useing less gun? makes little sens to me but i can live with it's just odd thats all.

reminds me can the art team fix the Myrms hardpoints its silly that it has 6 hards and only 5 slots. makes it look silly add on if you are gona reduce the Hypers Turrets down make sure you bludy skin it with 7 points if that means moveing the turrets or what ever. its gona look muppety with how the guns are layedout at current with only 6 guns and 1 extra with a blank hardpoint

Sooo, after years of complaining about galente guns to be inferrior to others (except some veeeeery special situations) We don't have 8 turret bs as other races do. We have just 7 crappy hybrid turrets max. COOL

Please give the Hyperion new Hardpoint locations.

Hype is the clear winner, it'll actually be usable for a number of things, Domi has it's strengths at the expense of losing it's versatility, Mega is nerfed.

Sod it.I give up.

fit em however but the new mega and domi are going to suck badly in their own problematic ways. i guess im gona take the easy way out and not fly them.

Have fun Fly safe

- Seeker

Heh, just read the post above mine. So... Consensus on the Domi issue? Increase drone damage bonus to 12.5% or 15% and reduce weapon hardpoints? (and increase drone bay?)

All in favour say yay, all opposed say nay.

Have the Megathron been nerfed even more? Only 75 BW as well as 75m3 dronebay? Wish we'd get that 8th turret as compensation. Don't understand why the hyperion is getting such an awesome drone potential instead of the attack megathron

"What's the advantage other than (makes a relatively long list of advantages)"

Well, basically everything you mentioned. DPS isn't the end all be all number, luckily. The biggest reasons people will fit smaller guns are increased tracking speed and decreased fitting. It allows them to keep the rest of their ship's fitting at a high point at the cost of some on paper DPS. Sometimes, however, in practice the applied DPS will be nearly the same as with the next size up guns, simply because while Neutron Blaster Cannons offer the highest amount of DPS in a number, Ion Blaster Cannons are less likely to make your effective DPS "0" by missing. And even moreso for Electrons.

This advantage holds more value on gun wielding battleships, as the higher tracking they have, the better capabilities they have to fend off enemy frigates or speed/sig tanking cruisers. As with anything else in EVE, it's hard for someone to really tell you what "the best" way to fit your ship is. There are good, solid, and proved ways. But everyone encounters different experiences, etc. Granted, while "the best" ships and fits are really obscure and in large part situational and opinionated, there are indeed bad fits. Hah.

A weapon tiercide would be kind of intersting. We all know it'd be good for the medium class long range turrets, boy are they awful. However, most of the time people just fit the biggest guns because it's a standard practice, and provided you're not missing they do indeed offer the greatest DPS, and by a rather enticing amount usually. And DPS, while not the end all be all, is far from unimportant.


- - -
In the interest of math **** I did a little bit of number crunching on the attack vs combat lineups (at least for Gallente) for some comparability, assuming Navigation V.

Frigate Level

---

Sub-Warp Maximum Velocity
Atron: 525m/s
Incursus: 425m/s
Micro-Warp Maximum Velocity
Atron: 3,700m/s
Incursus: 3,033m/s
Afterburning Maximum Velocity
Atron: 1,382m/s
Incursus: 1,129m/s

Atron has a 23.5% higher maximum velocity unboosted, 21.99% higher MWD boosted, and 22.4% AB boosted. So on average it's 22.63% faster than an Incursus.

Cruiser Level

---

Sub-Warp Maximum Velocity
Thorax: 300m/s
Vexor: 256m/s
Micro-Warp Maximum Velocity
Thorax: 2,028m/s
Vexor: 1,729m/s
Afterburning Maximum Velocity
Thorax: 766m/s
Vexor: 654m/s

On the cruisers, the Thorax comes ahead with increases of 17.18% base, 17.29% MWD, and 17.12% AB for an average 17.19% increase in velocity. Which is 5.44% lower than on the frigate level.

Battleship Level

---

Sub-Warp Maximum Velocity
Hyperion: 143.75m/s
Megathron: 152.5m/s

That's a 6% increase in speed on the Megathron versus the Hyperion. I don't think I even have to pull out the MWD and AB velocities to get the point across that it's hard to compare the "Attack Battleship/Combat Battleship" speeds to the Cruiser levels, let alone frigates.

Granted, both the Hyperion and the Megathron value their speeds, we can't just nerf the Hyperion's speed to make the Megathron's feel higher. At the same time, we can't increase the Megathron's speed without completely infringing on Minmatar design philosophy, making their battleships feel slow. And if we had to increase the Minmatar BS speeds, then all of a sudden the Mach would be slow. When we increase the Mach's speed, it'll be lapping Thoraxes. And when a Macharial is literally running circles around Thoraxes, we have a problem.

I don't really have any solution for the problem than to call the "attack" role for Battleships a relatively meaningless label. On the bright side, Gallente have a relatively decent option for using Railguns for the first time since the Sniperthron's glory days of old, hah. While it may not be the best choice it's not a bad one, and may work its way into fleets in a less embarrassing manner than "Well I didn't want to/can't fly a Rokh". It also gives Gallente specialized pilots a good platform for whatever they want rails for. Heck even the Hyperion can fit railguns now (kinda), dang.

interesting post ^^^

But still some effort should be put in the increase the speed of attack battleships but its not just speed bonus they get
-lower sig radius
-higher agility
-higher speed
-lower mass

so the attack role is a little more than one dimensional.

Also the Mach is probably a little OP in terms of speed and agility with all its 7 lows to add nanos...
Part of the problem with the Hyperion vs Megathron comparison is that ..
-active tank has no speed penalties anymore
-plates/trimarks nerf speed and agility.

Which kinda highlights that the attack role suits shield tankers more

Lets put it more broadly then. Why should a Gallente blasterboat have cap problems at all when all it is doing is firing its guns? It's not like we're getting a **** ton more gun dps than the old mega, we're getting about 7% more. And yet the cap life has gone down significantly.

I just don't see why the mega can't get more cap. What is it going to hurt?

This minus the ridiculously lego block looks nice in my opinion. Also those quad rear thrusters are "Meh" and can go. We only need the ring of thrusters and the fore mounted aux thrusters.

Wouldn't call it borderline OP, you can't field Ogre IIs unless you forsaken any chance of ever killing a frigate and you already lost some DPS with the 2 less turrets.

It will be one hell of a solo BS though.

Two things: Duality. Arranged 1vs.1. Nothing more to say about your "experience".

Now start playing "real" EvE low-sec and come back ...
Pr0 tip for all wannabe EFT warrior: even an awsome solo battleship is worthless when solo battleship fights are non existent / instant death.

Hyperion will NOT be awesome for solo pvp in lowsec for one special reason:

It lacks a midslot.
You either have to play without a propmod, allowing you to fit neutrons, or you play without ECCM, which means a griffin alone could be your demise.

On paper, the ship is awesome, but ingame it's easy to counter. A still remains aa strong ship, but as I said it's easy to counter.

All I'm saying with that is, you will get killed easily, because you have to either fly without a propmod, or without eccm, if theres a BB or a Falcon and you have no eccm, the fight's already over.